Community Council Minutes 20080311
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IRC log, Community Council Meeting 2008-03-11, 19:00 UTC
Attendees
- Stefan Taxhet (stx12)
- Martin Hollmichel (_Nesshof__)
- André Schnabel (Thalion72)
- Louis Suarez-Potts (louis_to) (chair)
- Matthias Huetsch (mhu)
- Cor Nouws (CorNouws)
- Pavel Janík (paveljanik)
- John McCreesh (jpmcc)
- Sophie Gautier (sophi) could not attend
IRC meeting commences 19:00 UTC (more or less)
14:53 Info The connection to the server has been established 14:53 *** You have joined the channel 14:54 CorNouws Indeed, difference between CET en UTC is too difficult ... for me when I rushing around ;-) 14:54 paveljanik CorNouws: date -u; date ;-) 14:57 *** stx12 (n=st@p548E3AE4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined the channel 14:57 stx12 hi all 14:57 CorNouws stx12: Hi, hi * 14:58 *** _nesshof_ (n=mh@p4FDE60C4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined the channel 14:59 _nesshof_ moin 14:59 paveljanik Hi 14:59 louis_to hello all 14:59 CorNouws good evening 14:59 louis_to sorry for late notice 14:59 louis_to but appreciate that you could make it 15:00 louis_to shall we set a hard time limit on this meeting? I propose not longer than 1 hour 15:00 paveljanik +1 15:00 CorNouws +1 15:00 _nesshof_ +1 15:01 stx12 sounds good to me 15:01 louis_to Thalion72? 15:01 Thalion72 +1 15:01 CorNouws mhu wrote he had to finish his lunch, and would arrive in about 10 min (from now) 15:02 louis_to okay, I'l ;assume that mhu is excited by that possibility 15:02 louis_to ah 15:02 louis_to we can start, anyway, with quick summary of john's post on budget holders 15:02 louis_to you are all familiar with it? 15:02 Thalion72 yes 15:02 CorNouws yep 15:02 paveljanik yes 15:03 louis_to the issues/objections were not very substantial. I raised the idea of other categories. Ie, education funds 15:03 louis_to Andre raised the logistics of ESC/developer approval 15:04 louis_to (and I just noted that john is not quite here yet) 15:04 *** jpmcc (n=user@92-235-187-79.cable.ubr18.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined the channel 15:04 louis_to hi john 15:04 louis_to I'll send you oin sidechannel the issue so far 15:04 jpmcc evening all 15:05 louis_to ->jpmcc: hi 15:05 paveljanik Hi John 15:05 CorNouws Hi 15:05 jpmcc apologies - took ages to log on to irc 15:05 louis_to no problem 15:06 louis_to so, I summarized the issues; logistical, mostly, and also query on adding new budget categories 15:06 CorNouws jpmcc: that's because your hate irc .. revence of the system 15:06 stx12 and I would like to raise that the ESC is supposed to hold two budgets (Developer and Infrastructure). I think infrastructure belongs to the council as it covers not only development. Whereas "Developer" is a perfect fit for the ESC. 15:07 louis_to stx12: would you mean the ESC has total determination over that budget? 15:07 paveljanik stx12: +1 to that idea. 15:07 paveljanik ESC for development, CC for infrastructure 15:07 Thalion72 +1 15:07 louis_to what kind of things would development include? 15:07 CorNouws +1 as Pavil explains 15:08 stx12 no, i would like to change "Budget Holder: To be appointed by ESC " to appainted by COuncil" for Infrastructure 15:08 paveljanik I do not like "to be appointed"... 15:09 stx12 so you would like to see qa cc member as budget holder? fine with me 15:09 paveljanik I think it is one additional level of references. 15:09 stx12 the question is whether is has to be a member or a delegate of the committee. 15:10 CorNouws prefer member: shorter lines, less extra coordination 15:11 * Thalion72 seconds CorNouws 15:11 stx12 fine with me for the budget holder; others? 15:11 * stx12 is counting... 15:11 jpmcc +1 15:11 Thalion72 +1 15:11 louis_to stx12: I'd like to see the final wording 15:12 _nesshof_ stx12: +1 15:13 louis_to eg, Infrastructure: Budget Holder: to be appointed by the CC; aurhorisers: two project leads proposed by budget holder and accepted by CC. Discussions on project leads (?) Budget: X? 15:14 CorNouws "The Budget Holder for Infrastructure is choosen by the council from one of it's members" 15:14 louis_to I'm fine with the changes; I just am curious about what further counts as "development" 15:14 Thalion72 Infrastructure: Budget Holder: Member of the C, to be appointed by the CC; aurhorisers: two project leads proposed by budget holder and accepted by CC. Discussions on project leads and / or discuss@council ; Budget: 10,000.00? 15:15 paveljanik +1 15:15 stx12 authorisers: two members from the project leads group or from CC or from ESC 15:15 louis_to for infra? that's fine 15:15 louis_to +1 15:15 jpmcc stx12 amendment +1 ... let's spread the responsibilities. 15:16 Thalion72 +1 for stx12's suggestion 15:16 CorNouws +1 15:17 CorNouws Question: is ¨authorisers: xx from the project leads group or from CC or from ESC¨ good as general rule? 15:17 louis_to CorNouws: doesn't it depend on the issuse? 15:17 CorNouws louis_to: ? 15:18 louis_to p_ls is a large and varied group; ESC is developer/product focused 15:18 Thalion72 CorNouws: as general rule for all budgets? 15:18 CorNouws Just a suggestion. Reasons not to do that? 15:19 louis_to perhaps we can discuss that on list 15:19 Thalion72 yes - Marketing (marcons could be approvers) 15:19 louis_to for now, if we are all agreed.... 15:19 louis_to so CC does infrastructure; ESC develper/development 15:20 Thalion72 yes 15:20 louis_to last point here; is the CC at all involved with development? ST had stated (but may have been for infra) that CC appoints the budget authorisers? 15:21 louis_to my point: given that development is crucial to OOo's identity, I am concerned about CC's relevance 15:21 stx12 i was talking about infrastructure only 15:22 mhu hi all, I'm back now (even read the discussion log) 15:22 Thalion72 development will stay at ESC 15:22 louis_to stx12; ah. 15:22 louis_to Thalion72: ESC appoints and discusses budget ? is CC involved at all, then? (beyond setting original sums) 15:23 stx12 one could involve the CC / project leads as authorisers 15:23 louis_to mhu: going over budget discussions; stx12 persuasively argued that CC should control appoint infrastructure budget. ESC development 15:23 louis_to stx12: that would be my suggestion 15:23 CorNouws louis_to: ? dunno understand. Budget holder Devel. from ESC, authorisers from other entities. That's what I think is OK. 15:24 louis_to CorNouws: right 15:24 stx12 CorNouws: yes 15:24 mhu louis_to: thanks for the summary, I think I could follow reading the log 15:24 Thalion72 louis_to: stx12 never suggested to change John's proposal for the development budget 15:24 louis_to Budget Holder: To be appointed by ESC Authorisers: two Project Leads/CC members proposed by Budget Holder and accepted by CC Discussions on: project_leads Budget: Developer €20,000.00 15:25 louis_to Thalion72: yes, stx12 corrected my misunderstanding 15:25 louis_to do we agree with the rephrased statement, then? 15:26 CorNouws +1 15:26 jpmcc louis_to: +1 (p.s. jpmcc wishes he had Euro sign instead of £ sign on keyboard) 15:26 Thalion72 +1 15:26 paveljanik +1 15:26 stx12 +1 15:26 louis_to +1 15:26 _nesshof_ +1 15:27 louis_to mhu? 15:28 louis_to * one more point-- adding other categories, such as education: is that development? marketing? depends? 15:28 stx12 IMO it depends 15:28 Thalion72 +1 for depends 15:28 mhu +1 15:28 louis_to (mhu: we are set to finish in 31 minutes) 15:29 mhu louis_to: yes, I noted your initial comment :-) 15:29 Thalion72 we should start with the current categories and ann more in the next budgets 15:29 CorNouws budget categories? 15:29 Thalion72 (add, not ann) 15:29 louis_to CorNouws: eg, marketing, development 15:29 CorNouws must be choosen bij CC, IMO 15:29 louis_to okay, agreed. Will discuss on council 15:30 CorNouws About the suggestion¨authorisers come from the project leads group or from CC or from ESC¨ good as general rule... 15:30 CorNouws When choosing someone as authoriser, I guess that his/her feeling with the subject is taken into account. So what would be the objection (trying to prevent extra mail ;-) ) 15:30 louis_to :-) 15:31 louis_to any more comments on the budget proposal sent by jpmcc? 15:31 Thalion72 mhu had a comment (should we remove the extra OOoCon budget?) 15:32 louis_to if not, modulo the changes made do we all agree with it, then? 15:32 stx12 i still struggle with the all duties of the treasurer - but if mhu does not complain :-) 15:32 mhu well, I don't see how I could get around all this... 15:32 _nesshof_ stx12: maybe he don't want to be reelected this year again ;) 15:33 mhu finally, I would need to send the money anyway. 15:33 louis_to absent -1, the budget proposal is passed.... 15:33 CorNouws Thalion72: that was about the fact that the 18.000 spendings are covered by the same incomes 15:33 stx12 yes, but now you need to hold the logs for all the budgets. 15:33 louis_to friends, we have 26 minutes or so.... 15:33 louis_to and if possible, let's discuss a few other items 15:34 Thalion72 louis_to: +1 for the proposal 15:34 paveljanik sure, +1 15:34 louis_to such as: elections, WWDC 2007 funding, template contest. 15:35 stx12 what about the option that the budget holder holds the log? 15:35 CorNouws details by budget holder, totals by treasurer 15:36 mhu what are the issues with WWDC 07 funding and template contest? should I be aware of something? 15:36 stx12 i'm just afraid that we will not find a treasurer once we burned mhu 15:36 louis_to propsal: that we continue to work on the details of this but that we start with budgeting --now 15:36 Thalion72 mhu: yes - people complain about missing payments 15:36 louis_to mhu: the template contest winners have not been fully paid, I believe; wwdc2007 has some issues with reimbursement 15:36 louis_to we can and should discuss this on list 15:36 louis_to please read up... 15:36 mhu stx12: you don't burn me so quickly :-) 15:37 louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda 15:37 louis_to we would like to resolve this as quickly as possible 15:37 CorNouws what I suggested on mail last Thursday -> pay-day 15:38 mhu what people do complain about what? I don't know of any contest winner, nor when the contest has been, nor ... 15:38 paveljanik 8) 15:38 louis_to so: wwdc and template issues tabled for on-list discussion: yes? 15:38 stx12 i paid those who had a paypal account. those where a bank transfer was needed could be lost by me. 15:39 stx12 i will clarify this. 15:39 Thalion72 stx12: so what would you suggest? Collect all missing requests and put it on a list for you to review and initiate the payments? 15:39 CorNouws stx12: Florian will have details, I guess 15:40 mhu yes, please someone tell me what to pay, whatfore, ..., and I might do. But not telling me doesn't help anyone. 15:40 CorNouws stx12: ? 15:40 stx12 i should have the information about the template contest winners; but hints are welcome. 15:41 _nesshof_ who was the owner for performing the contest ? 15:41 CorNouws stx12: I?l ask Florian to do so 15:41 louis_to Documentation project, in particular Gerry Singleton 15:41 Thalion72 CorNouws: thanks! 15:41 louis_to however, the trace of winners remains on the doc list 15:41 stx12 the former documentation project lead. 15:41 _nesshof_ stx12: oj, that explains the problem 15:42 CorNouws _nesshof_: hmm, partly, maybe 15:42 mhu I'm sure, we can resolve this, even if late for some of the winners. 15:42 Thalion72 I'd suggest AI for CorNouws: ask Florian (and other involved people) for missing payments, send list to stx12 and mhu 15:42 CorNouws yep, next issue please 15:43 louis_to +1 15:43 mhu WWDC 2007 ? 15:43 mhu I think this has been resolved meanwhile. Sophie? 15:43 louis_to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/The_OpenOffice.org_Community_Council_Agenda/WWDC2007_Funding 15:43 CorNouws For me no question on that, so without futher info I would say: pay 15:43 louis_to sophie cannot make it.. 15:44 CorNouws So we?l contact Sophie. Resolved > OK, If not, we?l do it. 15:44 jpmcc +1 for the CC to pay its debts :) 15:44 CorNouws (sorry, problems with ´ in Gaim) 15:45 Thalion72 +1 15:45 CorNouws no comment (= yes) 15:45 mhu I payed, and Christian Hardy replied : "The 2000 Euros arrived to the CUSOON count yesterday. 15:45 mhu Thank you very much. 15:45 mhu Christian " on Feb 26th. 15:46 louis_to so, the wwdc 2007 is resolved? 15:46 mhu Stefan and Sophie have that as a copy. 15:46 stx12 yes, this is resolved. 15:46 louis_to okay; so Cor will contact Florian and correspond with MHU on resolving hte template issue 15:47 louis_to other points on these items? 15:47 CorNouws no 15:47 CorNouws What about budget for the OOoCon 15:47 CorNouws Could we think about extra's to help more developers from far to join? 15:48 Thalion72 the payment for QATrack .. but florian knows about it 15:48 louis_to Cor: shall we make that an agenda item for next time? 15:48 CorNouws and coordinate with beijijng about rules 15:48 Thalion72 +1 15:48 louis_to that can be said of *new* issues/items... 15:48 CorNouws louis_to: Yes and a proposal on mail first 15:48 jpmcc CorNouws: there are a number of OOoCon items I'd like to take to the CC ... 15:48 louis_to jpmcc: indeed 15:48 louis_to John: let's do it this week, as soon as we can 15:49 CorNouws hmm, curious 15:49 louis_to Final for today: elections.... 15:49 jpmcc I've been talking to the Beijing team - I'll have a proposal by the end of the week 15:49 CorNouws elections fro what? 15:50 louis_to I'd like to propose we hold elections for CC members who are project leads 15:50 louis_to I'll send out the proposed schedule this week 15:50 louis_to I'd like to see if we can start the process then or early next week. It will take a couple of weeks 15:50 stx12 let's move specs to accepted project first too. 15:50 louis_to stx12: hm 15:50 louis_to stx12: I had discussions with the specs lead when I was in Hamburg 15:51 stx12 and? 15:51 louis_to they declined to move; said it was a mistake 15:51 * stx12 is surprised 15:51 louis_to the conversation was good--we need, very much, to promote specs-- 15:51 Thalion72 has there been an official request? 15:51 louis_to but they were not sure it merited or would benefit form being acepted 15:51 CorNouws apart from that (or not) no need to wait for that? 15:52 louis_to Thalion72: they had sent me an official request 15:52 Thalion72 ah - ok 15:52 louis_to I asked, why? 15:52 CorNouws should that infulence the shedule for cc elections 15:52 stx12 and now they are daunted :-) 15:52 louis_to CorNouws: it wouldn't but stx12 wanted to finish pending business 15:53 louis_to stx12: not at all, at least not by me :-) 15:53 Thalion72 CorNouws: no (and I don't see how this is related) 15:53 Thalion72 we will always have pending business :) 15:53 CorNouws so let? talk about elections 15:53 jpmcc btw I thought the way the ux project was promoted showed the community working well and could servfe as a model for the future 15:53 louis_to jpmcc: how so? It merely followed the protocols.... 15:54 louis_to ie, it wasn't the first and won't be the last... 15:54 mhu well thats a good start, isnt it? 15:54 jpmcc apologies for the diversion - you were talking about elections... 15:55 louis_to yes. AI me, to send the proposal for project lead elections. any disagreements? 15:55 louis_to (they are a year overdue or so) 15:55 Thalion72 no 15:55 CorNouws agree 15:55 paveljanik yes, ok 15:56 mhu okay 15:56 Thalion72 (rather two if not two) 15:56 jpmcc +1 15:56 stx12 go ahead 15:56 louis_to okay 15:56 louis_to unless there is more business , I'd like to adjourn today. I'd like to focus for next meeting on trademark issues/policy 15:57 louis_to and OOoCon 15:57 Thalion72 +1 15:57 CorNouws I'll add some on the maling list 15:57 jpmcc Are we finished 2 minutes early ?????????? O:-) 15:57 CorNouws Yes, leaving now, Good bye all. 15:57 *** CorNouws has left the channel () 15:57 mhu yes, and can we agree on a meeting date and time at leat 24h before. 15:57 paveljanik if we have 2 minutes, I'd like to ... 15:57 paveljanik late ;-) 15:57 _nesshof_ when will next meeting be ? 15:57 stx12 no, we have to find a date and time - this will take the next 2 hours 15:58 Thalion72 jpmcc: those two minutes are planned to get a beer ;) 15:58 jpmcc ;-) 15:58 louis_to I propose in three weeks---Tuesday or Thursday 15:58 paveljanik I'd like to change completely our time management method. 15:58 stx12 paveljanik: yes? 15:58 paveljanik meeting times should be not only proposed and voted on, but later announced. 15:58 paveljanik there was no announcement of this meeting 15:58 Thalion72 1st of April? 15:58 paveljanik there was no timezone attached to 19:00 15:59 paveljanik thus we all were just guessing that it is 19:00 UTC 15:59 stx12 paveljanik: i think we - incl louis_to - agree on that 15:59 louis_to paveljanik: are you going to continue to complain? 15:59 Thalion72 UTC is written at the Agenda page 15:59 louis_to :-) 15:59 paveljanik louis_to: no 15:59 paveljanik louis_to: I want to see the oslution 15:59 paveljanik I do not want to complain 16:00 paveljanik I'm used to some method to arrange meetings and the method we use right now is NONSENSE. 16:00 louis_to then let's see if we can agree on 1 April for now and refine it later, but not later than 1 week. 16:00 jpmcc 19:00 UTC Thurs March 27th? I'd really like the OOoCon stuff before Easter - maybe we can do it on list 16:00 louis_to jpmcc: agreed; we will have to do a lot on the list, anyway 16:00 mhu actually, I do agree with Pavel. I have more meetings than this, and cant always shift others in favor of this one. So some better planning is required. 16:00 louis_to my concern is that easter is a big holiday 16:01 paveljanik jpmcc: that time is OK for me. 16:01 Thalion72 jpmcc: the time is ok .. but it is actually after Easter 16:01 mhu thu mar 27 is fine for me as well 16:01 louis_to mhu, pavel: I have created google calendar to which all have total control; and you are free to suggest times 16:01 stx12 i will be on vacation the thursday before easter weekend 16:01 jpmcc Why don't we diarise to meet every two weeks on Thursdays? it's always easier to cancel a meeting than arrange one? 16:01 louis_to for now, agreeing on a date is required. 16:01 louis_to jpmcc: that was once the goal 16:02 mhu stx12: 27 is after easter 16:02 stx12 oops; looking at a calender with holidays may help... 16:02 louis_to okay, next meeting is 27 March, 19:00 UTC, unless otherwise noted. Changes should be made at least four days in advance and the list notified. 16:02 paveljanik ok, proposal - voting - announcement. 16:03 paveljanik can we at least agree on this principle? 16:03 louis_to the google calendar should be updated to reflect this 16:03 jpmcc and every two weeks after that? 16:03 paveljanik e.g. this meeting was proposed. 16:03 paveljanik some people voted on it 16:03 paveljanik none announced the agreed time. 16:03 stx12 and there is no chance to meet earlier in the day? 16:03 mhu louis_to: is the a howto for that damn google calendar? 16:03 * stx12 is sorry to ask this 16:03 louis_to mhu; it's a puzzle 16:03 louis_to stx12; issue was firewall 16:04 stx12 jpmcc's firewall? 16:04 louis_to stx12: we can meet before work, if you don't mind meeting at, say, 6 AM 16:04 louis_to stx12: yes; andre, too 16:04 jpmcc louis_to: I hate to admit this, but I now carry me EeePC with me so the firewall is not an issue for me now... 16:04 louis_to :-) 16:05 louis_to so, let's arrange a better time, which we can discuss on list: it's 5 minutes beyond end time 16:05 stx12 we only need Thalion72's opinion 16:05 Thalion72 well .. I can easily agree on 6 am (as long as we start electoins for project lead members soon) 16:05 louis_to but I'd guess that 15:00, if Thalion72 can do it... 16:05 mhu okay, bye for now. Have a good evening / day everyone. 16:05 louis_to mhu: bye... 16:06 Thalion72 no way before 17:00 UTC for me (or early in the morning) 16:06 *** mhu has quit IRC ("Ex-Chat") 16:06 Thalion72 bye mhu 16:06 louis_to meeting adjourned; we will discuss time for next and subsequent meetins onlist 16:06 louis_to okay, we'll work out a compromise; 17:30 is probably okay 16:06 Thalion72 +1 16:06 stx12 17:30 UTC sounds much more friendly to me compared to 19:00 16:07 jpmcc louis_to: internet reception is not very reliable on the bus ;-) 16:07 paveljanik is 17:30 acceptable for you louis_to ? 16:07 louis_to of course 16:08 louis_to even a meeting at 0600 UTC is 16:08 louis_to but thanks for asking 16:08 paveljanik louis_to: what is your timezone? 16:08 paveljanik (at home) 16:08 louis_to so, 17:30 27 March and thence every fortnight 16:08 louis_to -0500 16:08 louis_to but I got to sleep very late 16:08 Thalion72 so next meeting march 27, 17:30 UTC (and every 2 weeks from that on) 16:08 paveljanik +1 16:08 louis_to yes. 16:08 jpmcc I'd also like to discuss audioconference as an alternative (but not now) 16:09 stx12 thanks, all; let's see whether sophie and others can make 16:09 louis_to unless otherwise noted, in which case, warning 4 days in advance to the list and there must be some sort of receipt of reading 16:09 Thalion72 ok 16:09 louis_to thanks all... 16:09 *** jpmcc has quit IRC ("night night") 16:09 paveljanik bye 16:10 stx12 bye all 16:10 Thalion72 bye 16:10 louis_to bye all