Log Mac Meeting October 24th 2007

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[15:11] <PhilippL> ok, then

[15:11] <PhilippL> 1. Welcome new developers

[15:11] <PhilippL> any new developers ?

[15:13] <paveljanik> no unfortunately :-(

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[15:14] <PhilippL> 2. proceedings of the various Child work spaces

[15:16] <PhilippL> obo17 got integrated, which makes build providing for MacIntel/Aqua for Sun release engineering possible.

[15:16] <PhilippL> In aquavcl04 the objective C implementations got into their own .mm files.

[15:17] <PhilippL> in macosxquicktime01 a first implementation for child windows (SalObject) was implemented.

[15:18] <paveljanik> impressive work.

[15:18] <PhilippL> and accessibilty work has started.

[15:18] <PhilippL> There are probably some things going on I'm not aware of or missed out.

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[15:20] <paveljanik> there are several tasks around Sun builds:

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[15:20] <paveljanik> 1. unify maho's and Sun builds

[15:20] <paveljanik> 2. start using/tesing Sun builds

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[15:20] <paveljanik> I'll work on 1.

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[15:22] <PhilippL> 3. next meeting

[15:22] <PhilippL> so, do we keep 13UTC ?

[15:22] <hdu_hh> +1

[15:23] <paveljanik> +1

[15:23] <paveljanik> but

[15:23] <paveljanik> but not everyone is here...

[15:23] <paveljanik> as always. The question should be: do we want to change it?

[15:23] <paveljanik> no

[15:23] <paveljanik> ;-)

[15:24] <paveljanik> if anyone wants to (after reading the minutes) -> ask in ML.

[15:24] <PhilippL> I just thought about daylight savings. next week it will be 1 hour earlier in Europe.

[15:24] <PhilippL> it meaning the meeting :-)

[15:24] <paveljanik> Yes.

[15:25] <paveljanik> Let's see after we post meeting minutes.

[15:25] <paveljanik> three people participated in the meeting actively so far...

[15:25] <PhilippL> Perhaps we should also ask on the list.

[15:25] <paveljanik> yes

[15:26] =-= PhilippL has changed the topic to “OpenOffice.org Mac porting team channel. Next IRC Meeting: Wednesday 31st October 2007 (*13*:00 UTC) See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXPortMeetings for the agenda. Previous meetings logs are available at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Previous_Mac_Meeting_logs | Lists of Aqua issues are available at http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua”

[15:27] <PhilippL> to quote #openoffice.org_graphics:

[15:27] <PhilippL> 3. round table: everyone can discuss freely

[15:28] <PhilippL> :-)

[15:28] <paveljanik> ;-)

[15:28] <paveljanik> I'd like to say something.

[15:28] <PhilippL> yes ?

[15:28] <paveljanik> someone from French project told me to ignore Eric's moods, and I do so.

[15:28] <paveljanik> I'll continue to do so.

[15:29] <paveljanik> But what I'd like to know is, why we all are so passive in the last days.

[15:29] <PhilippL> What can I say ? Nobody wants to take sides between you and Eric.

[15:29] <paveljanik> and I do not talk only about development (where my biggest barrier still is ObjC)

[15:30] <paveljanik> what about not taking sides and only speaking your opinions?

[15:30] <paveljanik> do you expect Eric taking it personally again?

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[15:30] <paveljanik> Do you think this makes the atmosphere in the port OK?

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[15:31] <PhilippL> I would certainly say that eric took something personally, yes.

[15:31] <paveljanik> can you say your opinion to him privately?

[15:31] <paveljanik> even if it is other than the one you said?

[15:31] <paveljanik> Eric did a lot of work

[15:32] <paveljanik> and loosing him just because we do not want to take one or the other side is bad.

[15:32] <paveljanik> In barcelona, I was able to be five minutes with Eric alone in the room before his presentation.

[15:32] <PhilippL> Certainly. I already wrote to him that I valued his work and that we will greatly miss him.

[15:32] <paveljanik> I told him this everything, in private, but the result is as it is now

[15:32] <paveljanik> and I was even accused of everything bad.

[15:33] <paveljanik> and now Eric even wants to see the list of my invoices 8)

[15:33] <paveljanik> ok, this was joke only, but from reality...

[15:33] <paveljanik> sad joke.

[15:34] <PhilippL> I don't know what to say.

[15:34] <PhilippL> I'm certainly a little stunned that Eric chose to leave.

[15:35] <paveljanik> at least something. Being silent doesn't help here.

[15:35] <lgodard> eric needs to rest

[15:35] <lgodard> psychlogically and also physically

[15:35] <PhilippL> However it's not that there were no tensions beforehand.

[15:37] <paveljanik> OK. This is everything I wanted to say.

[15:38] <lgodard> i have a question about PPC

[15:38] <lgodard> what kind of ressources is needed

[15:38] <PhilippL> good question

[15:38] <lgodard> to keep having a PPC build in the future ?

[15:38] <paveljanik> lgodard: I think one MacPro with G8? ;-)

[15:38] <PhilippL> oh, the PPC built isn't killed or such.

[15:39] <PhilippL> it just will not be build by sun's release engineering.

[15:39] <lgodard> paveljanik: it is chinese for me as i do not know this world :)

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[15:39] <PhilippL> due to the fact that one cannot get even machines for that anymore.

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[15:40] <paveljanik> lgodard: ok, in Intel-wording: we need a 8 Xeon machine, every Xeon with 16MB cache and 7 cores.

[15:40] <lgodard> paveljanik: hum, that's all ?

[15:40] <paveljanik> it is still doable with older G5s but even with them, it is no fun.

[15:40] <lgodard> paveljanik: ;)

[15:40] <paveljanik> lgodard: yes, or in other words, we need a blue from sky.

[15:41] <paveljanik> lgodard: there are no Xeons with 16MB cache,

[15:41] <paveljanik> there are no Xeons with 7 cores.

[15:41] <paveljanik> and you can't buy them now.

[15:41] <paveljanik> but I think maho will still continue with builds for PPC.

[15:41] <paveljanik> This is also the reason I want to have unified build environments.

[15:42] <lgodard> yes but maho expressed that the ressources were limited , no ?

[15:43] <lgodard> paveljanik: is virtualisation a way ?

[15:44] <paveljanik> lgodard: unfortunately no. There is no legal way to run Mac OS X/PowerPC on something else than Apple hardware.

[15:45] <paveljanik> The only way would be to run it on Apple's MacPro, but it is Intel vs. PPC...

[15:45] <lgodard> paveljanik: ok. so qemu is illegal ?

[15:45] <paveljanik> and there is no proper PPC emulator yet.

[15:45] <jsi_sun> Q: Is ericb reachable through ericb@openoffice.org or has he also left that address behind him?

[15:46] <thorsten> jsi_sun: give it a try, I'd say.

[15:46] <lgodard> jsi_sun: i think he is still there, but you mat write him directly

[15:46] <lgodard> mat/may

[15:47] <paveljanik> ok, this is also connected with another question

[15:48] <paveljanik> I do not know how to ask, but as Eric probably had a problem with my communication or whatever, should I change something? If you do not want to say so here, I'd be happy to read it via mail. Thank you.

[15:49] <paveljanik> or via private dialog/whatever

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[15:49] <PhilippL> I don't have a clear idea. However I got the impression that you two didn't get well along together.

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[15:51] <PhilippL> Hi mikesic !

[15:51] <lgodard> paveljanik: /me is still wondering what a a 8 Xeon machine, every Xeon with 16MB cache and 7 cores means ;)

[15:51] <paveljanik> Do you think it comes from disagreements on technical stuff (which is OK for me) or from other things?

[15:51] <mikesic> PhilippL: hi

[15:51] <paveljanik> lgodard: there is no such thing :-)

[15:51] <PhilippL> paveljanik: no, I think it's more a social thing.

[15:51] <lgodard> paveljanik: yes i understood your joke

[15:52] <PhilippL> paveljanik: like this omninous "the chemistry isn't right"

[15:52] <paveljanik> PhilippL: you mean chemistry over IRC? ;-)

[15:52] <PhilippL> well, eric certainly felt offended by the way you phrased your concerns.

[15:53] <PhilippL> perhaps for him it could have been a little less direct.

[15:53] <PhilippL> (and such a statement coming from a german :-) )

[15:54] <paveljanik> OK, that is my fault.

[15:54] <jsi_sun> paveljanik: You have a clear, strict, less emotional way of communication. You are no native speaker (as the most of us) and that can be sometimes a problem for those who can not switch between technical speaking and "talking". I ahve no problems with it because I like colleagues with an opinion which is data driven, clear, etc. It would be great to get ericb back and then we should find a way of communication both can live with.

[15:54] <jsi_sun> paveljanik: ahve/have

[15:54] <paveljanik> I thought Eric is leaving as he announced, thus I was as open (direct if you want it) as I'm normally.

[15:55] <PhilippL> jsi_sun: ah, that's about it.

[15:55] <paveljanik> Maybe I should really politely ask him in private to change his mail.

[15:55] <paveljanik> OK. My fault.

[15:55] <PhilippL> I wouldn't say fault.

[15:55] <PhilippL> We're talking about misunderstanding here.

[15:55] <paveljanik> well, it was sub-optimal, thus it was fault.

[15:55] <jsi_sun> PhilippL: yes, misunderstanding

[15:56] <paveljanik> the optimal way was different :-(

[15:57] <paveljanik> jsi_sun: thanks for your opinion.

[15:58] <jsi_sun> paveljanik: no problem; I am also very direct and often I follow(ed) your opinion because I look from testing point of view and your anylzing mostly meets my needs :-)

[15:58] <PhilippL> mikesic: had you any chance to play with the quicktime view yet ?

[15:58] * jsi_sun is not a friend of features; I am a friend of HIGH QUALITY features

[15:59] <mikesic> PhilippL: I had a little time yesterday.

[16:00] <PhilippL> mikesic: so is there at least the view showing ? I just had it going in an svdem yet.

[16:00] <mikesic> PhilippL: I need to connect the view to the movie, and then some video will show. (Now only audio.)

[16:00] <PhilippL> mikesic: funny, it was only audio for me, too in my svdem.

[16:00] <mikesic> PhilippL: And I need to understand what is different between Impress and Writer

[16:01] <PhilippL> mikesic: do we have to do something special to activate the video display ?

[16:01] <mikesic> PhilippL: They seem to interface to the media differently

[16:01] <PhilippL> mikesic: that's not good. I thought they would use the same c++ implementation to access the service.

[16:01] <PhilippL> mikesic: I'll ask around a little and mail you then.

[16:02] <mikesic> PhilippL: I am surprised also

[16:02] <thorsten> yeah, funny. that's clearly not as intended...

[16:02] <mikesic> PhilippL: I hope next week we can have something that shows movies ;)

[16:02] <PhilippL> mikesic: Would be great :-)

[16:03] <paveljanik> mikesic: :-)

[16:03] <mikesic> thorsten: I say that because Writer tries immediately to get a framegrabber - but Impress does not.

[16:04] <thorsten> mikesic: ah - but they do use the same interfaces, right?

[16:04] <mikesic> thorsten: I don't yet know why.

[16:04] <mikesic> thorsten: yes - AFAIK

[16:05] <paveljanik> ok, I have to leave now. See you later.

[16:05] <paveljanik> and thanks for open discussion.

[16:05] <paveljanik> really

[16:05] <paveljanik> bye

[16:05] <PhilippL> paveljanik: bye

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[16:07] <PhilippL> mikesic: do you have any idea how to impose a clip region on an NSView ? We would need one to make the view "vanish" behind e.g. our toolbars.

[16:07] <mikesic> PhilippL: no, not immediately.

[16:07] <PhilippL> mikesic: I looked at the documentation, but it seems, only an NSWindow can be "shaped" by a mask.

[16:08] <mikesic> PhilippL: I will keep that in mind as I work and if I find out I will let you know.

[16:08] <PhilippL> mikesic: so perhaps I'm going to put a child window between the document frame and the view you currently get.

[16:08] <mikesic> PhilippL: ok

[16:08] <PhilippL> mikesic: However that should change nothing for you, I hope.

[16:09] <mikesic> PhilippL: I think not - I only need the QTMovieView from the object.

[16:09] <PhilippL> Then we should be in the green with the child window. I'll try it next week in my svdem.

[16:11] <PhilippL> So any open points for the meeting ?